should smokers pay more for health insurance debate

None of us should have to pay anything for health care. The increased cost of cigarettes is the strongest influence in getting people to smoke. First off, smokers and fat people should not be treated equally for one it would be hard to classify who's "fat" considering different body types and muscle/fat ratios, etc, and it may be harder for some to stay slim given their economic class and/or genes. However, because smokers and obese people die younger than healthy individuals, healthy individuals had the highest lifetime health care expenditures. Insurence companies need to put people ahead of massive profits. Let's give people who smoke free tobacco-company-paid health insurance. A solid majority 59 percent say that smokers should pay more for health insurance than nonsmokers. This is self-inflicted risk that clearly results in higher medical costs. Kytle Frye is a partner atwith Fisher & Phillips LLP, one of the nations leading labor and employment firms representing employers, counsels clients on this and related topics and can speak to this issue. If they quit smoking they save at least the $2190 and their rates will go down, so explain to me why this is bad. He or she can suggest a range of resources that can help you as you cut smoking out of your life. But is this plan moral? Tune in to "The Situation Room" at 4 p.m. r/AskReddit is the place to ask and answer thought-provoking questions. One colleague agreed with the majority of respondents, arguing, "Why should I have to pay the same amount as someone who chooses to voluntarily ingest poison?". There is no excuse to smoke or be overweight unless you have a serious condition which can be evaluated by your health care provider. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". Our wired & web connected society has turned us into a society of couch potatos, and it's only getting worse. What famous person essentially cancelled themselves Press J to jump to the feed. On every pack of cigarettes there are warning that indicate they are hazardous to your health. More profit. So if you can get people to quit these expensive habits how in the hell are you hurting them? Of course they should pay more. Nearly three-quarters of people in households with with annual income of $100,000 or more . Second, the subsidies dont increase to make up for the cost of the surcharge. These people should be paying more money for health insurance. What about those who use to be silm and later became FAT? By the 1980s, smokers were already paying more for life insurance than their nonsmoking counterparts. At the same time, skinny non-smokers should pay half. Why not if your bad habit increases your health care costs. Shopping around for health insurance is a smart way to cut costs and take steps towards improving your health. Even if such a law exists, all may not be lost, as some state laws may be preempted by federal law. You will be charged Isn't it time somebody DONE somthing about this stuff ?! People who play football since they're going to be brain damaged over time? Besides, if you make obese people a political issue you will lose at the ballot box because most of are obese. While the intent behind his call is well-intended, it is based on a flawed premise. I believe that working people wether smokers, fat, or just plain ill, should NOT be charged more for health insurance, while individuals that do not work at all get 100% coverage. And its not guarenteed that all smokers will burden the health care system. Deborah Chollet, a senior fellow at Mathematica Policy Research in Washington, D.C., doesnt expect insurance companies to impose 50 percent surcharges anytime soon, even in states where they are allowed to do so. Determine if the state (or states) in question has any law that makes it illegal to do so. Obviously they use more health care resources than a single employee. If we start down this road than the next thing it would be, anyone with a history of cancer or any other known health problems in their genetic background, would have their Health Care canceled or would have to pay some ridiculous price. Then He Blurted out without being called upon. Sure why not? Pepperell, MA. By charging smokers higher health insurance rates, insurance companies can make people pay a price for the risks they take. It is only fair that those who have negative behavior pay more for their health care. Sadly in America we have far more unhealthy people than healthy so this will probably be resisted and some groups will get involved and say it's discrimination. Jack, Where do you draw the line? Maybe we can answer this by expanding your question: what if a person is an alcoholic? Why would us healthier employees have to foot their hiking rate of insurance for them? While it's true that smoking does cost the healthcare system a significant amount of money each year, it's also worth considering the extra taxes smokers are paying. Yes. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. On second thought, we should just give them all our money now and be done with it. Should smokers pay more for health insurance? Well you ask for my opinion!!". The same policy should apply to people who drink excessively, use illicit drugs and knowingly choose to engage in activities that are high risk to life and limb. Insurance companies ask if you have any dangerous "hobbies" why not dangerous life styles. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Come on, being fat and being a smoker are BOTH addictions and choices, just like a drug addict. Charging people rates based on their personal risks protects insurance companies against moral hazard, people taking risks without bearing the consequences. By some sort of body mass formula? We are delighted that you'd like to resume your subscription. The tobacco industry needs 5,000 new smokers every day to stay afloat. You would have to stay away from smoking for at least 2 years before premiums drop. But that is private health-care, and we're talking about government health care(which I am not sure if I support or not). Not to mention I don't get sick nearly as often. The health insurance surcharge applies to users of all types of tobacco, including pipes, cigars, cigarettes and chewing tobacco. Also obese persons with non-preexisting conditions to cause their weight/cholesterol/etc. Obesity? Nobody gets out of here alive We should ALL pay LESS for healthcare period. I don't think so. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Still it is also likely an acceptable wellness program would provide some insulation from such outcomes. The average surcharge now is around 15 percent, she says. Jack: Discrimination is against the law. 1 cause of preventable disease, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A study of 20,000 employees showed that smokers had more hospital visits per 1,000 (124 versus 76), had a longer average length of stay (6.5 versus 5 days) and made six more visits to health care facilities per year than non-smokers. This commentary sets the article by Dubois on the ethical justification for charging higher insurance premiums for people with unhealthy lifestyles in the context of US health care . Another noteworthy point is that the US does not allow foreign competitors (health insurers) to enter the market, thereby aiding domestic insurers to raise rates at will and exploit the ignorant consumers. I don't like the idea of singling groups out. Since we are now talking about doing that, it is only a matter of time before that happens. Doctors charge whatever exorbitant price they want, and have NO incentive to make us well because then, theyd lose money. I Jack gain weight if I try to live on 500, 1000, or even 1500 calories a day. Smokers, yes. The best case scenario for immunocompromised people like me would be universal masking in all public spaces. Walk. If costs for health care keep on the path they are going, at some point my company is not going to be able to afford to provide us with health care, so if that can help, so be it. When you quit smoking, you can effectively reverse some of its effects on your health. As a smoker you could face paying up to $500 a month for the company health plan. The key difference between life insurance for smokers and non-smokers is the likelihood of being accepted and the cost. VOTE THE BUMS OUT. It's not that is it unfair but you need to be responsible. The risk is based on numerous factors such as, lifestyle and genetics. It's no secret that quitting cigarettes isn't as easy as not lighting up. Most and least expensive trucks to insure, How to find out if someone has life insurance, Best health insurance for college students. However, not everyone agrees that this should be the case. Translation: people who don't quit smoking, lose weight or lower their cholesterol. The company dropped it due to lack of interest. Advise upper management of the potential pitfalls, as well as the benefits of adopting differentials, including the costs of a wellness program. Wall-Mart charges smokers more than any other company, requiring them to pay $2,000 extra per year. 2023 Compare Club, All Rights Reserved. Last time I checked, the cost of doing a lap around the block or taking the stairs for a change is free. The ACA recognizes the increased costs associated with smoking employees by allowing insurers to raise smokers premiums up to 50 percent over those paid by non-smokers. The idea here is that minorities and certain ethnicities are more likely to be smokers. They will save a fortune if they quit buying cigarettes. So, the people known as "corporations" are free to lie, stretch the truth and spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get people, even children, to want cigarettes, sugar and grease. We don't punish drug users or alcoholics by charging them more because of their chemical dependence so I dont see any sense in singling out fat people and Smokers for their bad habits. But should smokers pay more for health insurance? But no, I don't think so, because lower socio-economic classes have a higher burden of smokers and can't afford to pay more. Hey this reminds me of car insurance. I guess intellectual consistency isn't our strong suit. But such surcharges are misguided. The wellness program must satisfy the following four requirements: Another potential legal problem arises from the Americans with Disabilities Acts prohibition against discriminating in benefits with respect to qualified individuals with disabilities. Fresh food is cheaper than junk food and less food costs less than more food. Would you ride in a car that drives itself? It reality, I think the insurance companies are just pushing employers to do their dirty work for them and at the same time increase their profits. Some view them as equivalents of nicotine chewing gum or nicotine skin patches, and others see the product as another form of tobacco use, as life insurers do. There should also be discounts for people who live an active life style, and take care of themselves in comparison to their age group! Of course people who practice unhealthy activities should pay more for health insurance, just like people who drive dangerously or speed pay higher premiums on their vehicle insurance. There is always a reason but there is never an excuse for bad health. Do we want someone not going to the doctor for fear of their rates going up? The ABS found that smoking causes 80% of lung cancer deaths and 20% of overall cancer deaths. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. I have always thought it odd that smokers are so shunned, at least in part because of the health problems and costs they bring, while the wilfully overweight are victims of the fast food industry. You will be notified in advance of any changes in rate or terms. Read Pediatric Gender Care: Absence of Evidence Is Not Absence of Efficacy, Read The Cure for Politicized Pediatric Gender Care, Read Moving On from Covid? I overheard a pharmaceutical rep entice him with all kinds of freebies to push her drugs. It is a shame what american society has come to with everyone making an excuse for overweight people. However, I don't think there should be a set fee. Health care is a basic human right and that right is not negated by smoking or overeating. RELATED:The surprising reason why more women are smoking than men. As a person who is living large, I can tell you that I don't have high blood pressure, I don't have diabetes, my knees and back are fine. No you see the importance of everyone being required to have insurance, be it public or private. Wal-Mart, which insures more than 1 million people, is one such company. Would he benefit enough from brain surgery? Then, would not liquor users be the next target. I don't have cancer. Jack ~ Sorry to answer your question with another question, but it is relevant. It needs to be a flat rate for everyone. According to the utilitarian argument, charging smokers more will encourage them to quit, which will improve public health and reduce societys smoking-related costs. So pay up! The stubborn presence of tobacco use is frustrating considering the plethora of studies that link it to so many debilitating diseases. how tobacco surcharges influence insurance enrollment rates among smokers and non-smokers. Heres where the tobacco surcharge runs into problems. More importantly, for the purposes of this post, when surcharges arose in 2014, there was a pretty steep decline in the percent of smokers who purchased insurance. RELATED:Theres something in your fridge thats just as ageing as smoking, Its not hard to see why people think this way; smoking has been linked to a long list of serious and often life-threatening health impacts, including lung damage, raised blood pressure and reduced blood flow, reduced bone density and increased risk of several cancers. For example, if the cost of insurance is more than 9.66% of your income, the ACA lets you forgo insurance coverage without incurring a penalty. California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont prohibit tobacco rating for policies purchased throughout the individual market. Healthy, beautiful people have all the advantages in life. If I cause a greater loss experience for my auto insurance company because of my poor driving habits and/or poor choice of vehicle, my insurance company charges me more. It is affordable and available, people choosing not to purchase increase costs for everyone else as the providers must have money to cover their cost. This is called tough love; the firms are offering free services to help them improve their lifestyles. When the genetic components of responding to the advertising that aided addiction to the once omni-legal activity of smoking and now fuels the pervasive fast food industry will it become civil rights issue. Unionized employers must take into account their bargaining obligations. The Unvaccinated Should Pay More For Health Insurance. The price of life insurance is based to an extent on the health of the insured. The most obviou and clearest cases of physical abuse by a person on themselves should cost the perpetrator. Whats a company secret you can share now that you dont What quietly went away without anyone noticing? Yes. It's not about health, it's about money. They should foot the bill for the fat and un-healthy. How about people paying more if they drink more than one glass of wine a day or have sex more than once a year or drink more than 4 glasses of water a day? it's supply and demand folks: are you sick of paying higher and higher healthcare costs? Life insurance, on the other hand, is risk-rated, so your premiums are based on the level of risk you present to the insurer. This is why you have some health insurance companies charging different premiums for smokers and non-smokers. They're clearly reckless drivers and are more likely to get into injury accidents. Sure, as well as people with over active tyroids, and underactive thyroids, and those with ADHD, and those on high blood pressure medicine, and anyone with a pre-existing condition including acne, as some insurance companies rate it. Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union? If youre in the market for health insurance, Insure.com annually ranks the best health insurance companies according to surveyed policyholders. But then, when people, known as "humans", fall prey to this propaganda blitz and believe that cigarettes make them cool and ice cream will make them happy, then they and they alone are responsible for the consequences? If smoking will not be banned, then double its price. Guess who has to indirectly pick up that tab. Fortunately, theres a simple solution to the problem. Search thousands of physician, PA, NP, and CRNA jobs now. Our politicians need to stop and think about the people who are working to take care of this country and stop handing out free money to the individuals who don't want to work. It is a fact that if you leave an unhealthy lifestyle, your lifespan will be shorten and costlier. This is provocatively simplistic, betrays the lack of decency befouling this country, and represents why government can't leave corporations to run health care. A health insurance policyholder with a BMI in the obese range pays 22% more in health insurance premiums than a person with a BMI in the normal range. Join 150,000+ subscribers Get KevinMD's most popular stories. Weve seen this movie be. which in fact may be caused by preventable environmental conditions. If I'm 10 pounds over weight and smoke one cigarette per week, will I have to pay as much as a person who is 100 pounds over weight and smokes two packs per day? But that's a story for another day. They are considered high risks. Not surprisingly, implementing a differential does involve some risk. Quit smoking; start working out. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Private health insurance wasn't created so everyone could get healthy it is a financial product in the United States. By choosing to smoke, Im increasing my chances of needing more medical care than those who dont smoke. I think educating them is. What is a qualifying life event for special enrollment? The reason for the move has come because companies are saying smokers cost them more money in medical costs and so the extra cost is just being passed down. Where are the numbers to support that lifestyle behaviors are significant costs. Sometimes you need a kick in the pants to get going. Jack, for non-smokers and fit people it sounds reasonable. That is the right solution, not charging people more for health insurance because they have a problem. Poor people can afford this expensive health hazard luxury? If we begin to separate people because of diseases, it might begin to punish people with costly diseases which they could not have prevented like Type one diabetes, Parkinson's, most cancers etc. "If tobacco users are charged more for health insurance, they should be provided with access to resources to quit," said lead author Michael Pesko, a health economist at Georgia State. There are two main ethical arguments for charging smokers higher insurance rates. Many studies have focused on smoking and its deleterious effects, not just upon ones health, but upon productivity. Luis Rosales. There are several acceptable terms such as overweight. Smokers kill themselves, kill others through second hand smoke, waste money, burden hospitals, and smell bad. The Centers for Disease Control estimates that each smoker costs a company an additional $3,391 per year including $1,760 in lost productivity and $1,623 in excess medical expenses. This echoed the findings of a2012 survey of 1213 Australians,in which 73 per cent of respondents believedin the same principle. If you are in a dangerous occupation either you or your employer gets a larger bill. Second. Tobacco use is using any tobacco product an average of four or more times a week within the last six months. Hell no. It's a habit that's known to have a detrimental impact on your health. There are numerous providers for such programs, often insurers, and seeking legal counsel also would be fruitful. What if we asked patients what they want? In reality employers are directly helping them save. So why can't people with bad health habits be considered high risks also. Here is a question for you all? Some also argue that hiking smokers premiums serves as an incentive for them to kick the habit. Quitting smoking can reverse some of its effects within years, making you a less likely candidate for heart disease and lung cancer. The odds. Why would they stop there? 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A kick in the hell are you hurting them the website drug addict someone not going be... Understand how visitors interact with the website disease, according to the problem lifetime! Is cheaper than junk food and less food costs less than more food is why you have some health because... For healthcare period, insurance companies charging different premiums for smokers and non-smokers one company...